No FAT Japanese people is a *huge* misnomer

topic posted Mon, December 4, 2006 - 9:16 PM by  Unsubscribed
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The discrimination against obese folks in Japan is just as bad, if not worse, than in America. So, in keeping with the concept of oppression and discrimination and the hammering down of one's self confidence in light of these dynamics, it's no wonder we, in the western world, simply don't SEE many fat Japanese people...they don't tend to travel much (I know that's a generalization, but I have it on good authority that it's quite true).

But, they do exist. Perhaps not in the same proportion as here in the U.S., but drawing any sort of concrete conclusion as to the health benefits of a tradtional Japanese diet is just not valid. I've been hosting Japanese colllege students for the past 5 years and in the many family photos I've seen, there is always a handful of enormous Japanese family members. Alas, they don't have the confidence or the community/family support to venture out of their homeland (much less their homes, for fear of discrimination), so we don't tend to include them in our general concept of what a Japanese person looks like.

Kryssa
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  • Re: No FAT Japanese people is a *huge* misnomer

    Wed, December 6, 2006 - 9:19 AM
    its funny that we have this myth in America that people are only fat and overindulgent here in the states? Maybe its guilt for ur basic high standard of living
    • Re: No FAT Japanese people is a *huge* misnomer

      Wed, December 6, 2006 - 10:49 AM
      I tend to agree with that, though ... a lot of countries have chubby people, but outside of Polynesia and Micronesia I've never seen the levels of true obesity that you see in the midwest and south.
      • Re: No FAT Japanese people is a *huge* misnomer

        Wed, December 6, 2006 - 12:17 PM
        Their is alot to be said about most peoples current life styles, but this is a lifestyle change that is taking place in most parts of the world. I just feel at times Americans can be vilafied for it to an extreme degree.
        • Re: No FAT Japanese people is a *huge* misnomer

          Wed, December 6, 2006 - 12:26 PM
          Considering that after travelling around the world and seeing few places that didn't have a Pizza Hut/McDonalds/KFC/Burger KIng, it makes it difficult to say that American's aren't largely responsible for the increase in obesity around the world. Because American pop culture is held in such high esteem in foreign countries they warmly receive anything remotely "American," so eating at these places is considered worldly, especially in developing countries.
          • Re: No FAT Japanese people is a *huge* misnomer

            Wed, December 6, 2006 - 1:27 PM

            Mexico now trails just slightly behind the US in obesity rates, and diabetes is now almost epidemic. Sad but true... Still, you don't see as many obese people as in the states (that can hardly walk and what not), a lot of it has to do with a really fast change in diet to processed foods: quit eating beans and tortillas, start eating chips and big macs... And it seems like this is happening in a lot of the world. I wouldn't blame it on american pop culture as much as industry and capitalism, really. Although both kinda go hand in hand...
            • Re: No FAT Japanese people is a *huge* misnomer

              Wed, December 6, 2006 - 1:56 PM
              From what I've seen, industry and capitalism goes hand in hand with pop culture. Consider how industry and capitalism is sold. It's by a cute logo, designed by an American company for an American company (all commercial design work is based off of/influenced by pop culture) or it's by having American pop culture celebrities wearing the clothes in movies, music videos, TV shows, with certain hair styles, eating certain foods, etc... it's all pop culture. What I mean by pop culture is the shared mental and physical enviroment of a large group of people so even politics can be pop culture - it's goes beyond lifestyle and affects language, art, music, products, that's all pop culture to me.
              • Re: No FAT Japanese people is a *huge* misnomer

                Wed, December 6, 2006 - 1:59 PM
                And this is comming from one who own's a French BullDog... Down worry Tri, I think we know where your loyalty is..............
                • Re: No FAT Japanese people is a *huge* misnomer

                  Wed, December 6, 2006 - 2:13 PM
                  *L*
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     

                    Re: No FAT Japanese people is a *huge* misnomer

                    Wed, December 6, 2006 - 6:16 PM
                    Oh, I'm sure Americans are responsible for some part of the growing obesity epidemic in developed nations, but not all. Japanese street food, like street food most anywhere, is very high in fat and sodium. And sadly, many Japanese people rely on these prepared dishes due their very hectic schedules...at least in the urban areas.

                    I've hosted 9 Japanese females and 3 males and every female except one was teeny tiny and barely nibbled on the home made, healthy food I prepared for them. The one exception was a 23 y/o female that was smaller than the average American woman (of the same height) , or about a size 10, and she had it drilled into her that she was very fat! She couldn't believe how easy it was to find clothing in her size here in America, as apparently in Japan finding anything in 'young, hip' clothing was next to impossible for her. Anything larger than an American size 6 was relegated to catalogues.

                    A friend of mine that's been living in Japan for the past 8 years just returned and related many stories to me of how ostracized she was due to her weight. She's a plus size here, but in Japan she had to live in stretchy excercise clothes because she couldn't even find a single outlet for plus size clothing. She said that her overweight peers pretty much stayed indoors or very close to home, except to work. They-and she- tried to avoid public places because of the rampant prejudice toward overweight people.

                    My own experiences with young Japanese females (ages 18 to 25) here has been that they more or less starve themselves of solid foods and rely on Miso soups (of which there are several different kinds), various teas and plain white rice.

                    Also, as any of you who've used recipes from traditional Japanese cookbooks will have noticed, they use alot of SUGAR in just about everything. So even the homemade foods are laden with glucose.

                    Kryssa
  • Re: No FAT Japanese people is a *huge* misnomer

    Thu, December 7, 2006 - 2:36 PM
    Hmmm, part of me tends to be siding with those on the thread that beleive that the hectic schedule expected of workers in the US and Japan (not to mention elsewhere) particularly now in a more automated or PC dependent job where there is more sitting than standing, may be a factor in Obesity.

    But with Japan the increase in the rates of obesity can't completely be explained this way, because really Japan has almost been famous for decades of having incredible demands on scheduling and eating on the run.

    I am being hypothetical here, but the WTO has pressured many countries into opening their markets to US crops that have been....

    Genetically modified

    Carries pesticides which in small amounts actually mimic hormones

    Meat with large amounts of hormones

    I cannot help but notice that as European Economic Community markets were forced open to accept such crops that were once turned away that their rates of obesity have increased. I would think perhaps the more recent acceleration of obesity in Japan might correlate with increased deregulation on what is acceptable levels of hormones and pesticides in food as well as deregulation of GM crops.

    I know a few people who spend the money to only buy hormone free chicken, beef, pork... non GM crops organically grown, and organically feed for the animals. NONE of them are obese. I began to struggle with obesity when I stopped buying non-hormone and organic foods because they are expensive and my costs have been rising and I couldn't afford the food. Even though higher income people in all nations sit at desks, and lower income people are usually on their feet doing physical work, the lower income people have a much higher proportion of the obesity. Part of that is because higher income people can afford better food, and probably even spend some of their income to make sure the food is organic. I would assume, though I can't be sure, that the same distribution of obesity predominating with the poorer is in Japan as it is with the US.


    • Re: No FAT Japanese people is a *huge* misnomer

      Thu, December 7, 2006 - 8:31 PM

      Hmmm... Interesting...

      The part about obesity attacking poorer people is especially visible and incredibly sad, it's as if the whole pattern of starvation has been changed for over-feeding, or simply living of pooerer quality food, empty calories meant to keep an industrial proletariat going (sugar and fat, basically), I'm not sure how this affects Japan but it is clear in the US and much of Latin America. I was surprised in Argentina at how many women (most) were incredibly skinnny- in fact anorexia has reached epidemic levels and the government has had to start massive campaigns and change laws to fight that. A common insult is "grosso" (fat), and is used to describe someone poor and uncultured...

      But this whole thing on hormones is really crazy and makes too much sense. I mean what kind could the long term effects of this be? If you also think of how many more women are suffering from hormone unbalances, cysts, etc....
      • Re: No FAT Japanese people is a *huge* misnomer

        Thu, December 7, 2006 - 9:08 PM
        well yes,

        considering the purpose of the hormones themselves is to cause the cattle themselves to prematurely reach full size and become well marbled with extra fat reserves for more tender meat.... or lactate more for milk production... I would think that if these hormones manage to pass even partially in tact from the cooking or pasteruization process it could lead to hormone imballences that can fatten humans just as it fattens the cattle.

        if you think about the implications of this, Soylent Green almost seems more appetizing.
        • db
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          Re: No FAT Japanese people is a *huge* misnomer

          Fri, December 8, 2006 - 12:56 AM
          there is no doubt about the effects on Japanese people from the change of dietary habits(post war) and mostly in the last few decades.
          they didn't even sell the sizes of clothing and shoes that they do now. before, meat and dairy products were unavailable to most
          and now they are common, not to mention pumped full of hormones.
          although sumo has been around for awhile, and obviously so have fat people, the general public is growing from many american influences.
          also the sugar use was never like it is now nor the chemicals nor inactive lifestyles(tv&games...).

          they still do live the longest lives in the world. these are the generations of hard working people eating seasonal vegies & fruits
          and drinking hot liquids(tea!) many times a day. no doubt this will change with the aging of the newer generations.

          the worst influence from america was the loss of harmony.
          • Re: No FAT Japanese people is a *huge* misnomer

            Fri, December 8, 2006 - 3:44 AM
            From my experiance in the Himalayas, I would say the number one factor effecting the weight of a population is its level of daily exercise. As someone brought up before, I don't think this is so much an american thing as a condition of Human nature, after all how many of us really want to make our lifes harder


            But then again, I guess everyone needs a scapegoat
            • Re: No FAT Japanese people is a *huge* misnomer

              Fri, December 8, 2006 - 7:36 AM
              I wouldn't dismiss factors such as changes in exertion necessary to living daily life as having much to do with obesity, as you say.

              But I don't know if you should be dismissing other possible causes as a scapegoat.

              For instance, in the 1950's suburban life was almost as sedentary as it is today. It required about the same level of exertion to live it. People worked in offices or stood in production lines expending probably something close to the same number of calories. People drove to strip malls and supermarkets. People spent hours listening to radio shows or watching TV, they went "out" more but it was usually to activities where they sat down such as movies. Take out and delivery buisinesses were quite lucrative. Automats provided convenience impulse food, fat contents were just as high though there were less extensive use of transfats. Fast food buisinesses were really taking off.

              There were probably as many people living suburban life at the same pace in the 1970's as there are today, expending even then about the same low caloric expenditure of energy. Lifestyle and food didn't change much from the fifties to the present, the same junk food, the same life spent sitting on couches watching screens, driving to convenient parking.

              If the level of daily exercise were the only factor Dustin, then the levels of obesity for people in these lifestyles would have remained fairly unchanged as their level of activity remained unchanged. It also wouldn't explain easily the obesity problem consistent with the poorest in countries like Mexico among people in low tech who do much more walking and who depend more on manual labor to accomplish normal household tasks in the absence of modern technological conveiniences. I think it's always important before one comes to a conclusion about the obesity epidemic to try to isolate the variables. If daily levels of exercize don't change much, and caloric intake doesn't change drastically either, and obesity increases to epidemic proportions... there might be other factors. If the major difference in the food between now and other times in the past is that the production of many foods has become deregulated and many growth hormones permitted, that the rate of obesity increases with their use as the one changing variable... I don't think that is just simple scapegoating.
              • Re: No FAT Japanese people is a *huge* misnomer

                Fri, December 8, 2006 - 10:45 AM
                Though I agree with you on the issue, I think the natural lifestyle has become a selling point in itself, and too most people,sadly, just another fad. Don't get me wrong I tend to have a 60-80 whole food diet, but I think the card can be overplayed as a cure all for all ills.
                • Re: No FAT Japanese people is a *huge* misnomer

                  Fri, December 8, 2006 - 10:55 AM
                  no script errors here, could be something with your cookies settings... if cookies aren't accepted navigation becomes tempermental after a short time trying to write a post.

                  I agree with you that if a person only focuses on "natural" foods and overeats, and is lethargic, they may not necessarily benefit.

                  After all, there were fat people in the days before high tech frankenfoods and agribuisiness conglomerates.

                  Some people just simply ate too much bacon :)
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                    Re: No FAT Japanese people is a *huge* misnomer

                    Fri, December 8, 2006 - 11:27 AM
                    thx for the heads up, I was trying to figure out if it was some update from AVG-Spyware, and that seems to be the case.


                    "You better Butter that Bacon Boy"
                    • Re: No FAT Japanese people is a *huge* misnomer

                      Fri, December 8, 2006 - 11:32 AM
                      MMmmmm... bacon....
                      • Re: No FAT Japanese people is a *huge* misnomer

                        Fri, December 8, 2006 - 11:56 AM
                        • Re: No FAT Japanese people is a *huge* misnomer

                          Sat, December 9, 2006 - 1:59 PM
                          I have no doubt that the negative effects of growth hormones in meat and dairy products is enormous (no pun intended), and I'm sure we'll be learning much more about it in the years to come. I find it difficult to always eat organic/natural/grass-fed products because of the price, but in my mind, avoiding factory-raised meat and dairy might be the most important dietary decision you make, especially for kids. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if we did find a direct correlation between growth hormones and obesity, as well as other problems like women's health issues and the widespread increase in food allergies.

                          Having said all that, I think there are many more reasons for the obesity epidemic. I disagree that there has not been a significant drop in exercise since the 1950s, for the following reasons: computers, video games, cable, TiVo, DVD players, VCRs, etc. I grew up in the '60s and '70s, and I can assure you that we got a LOT more exercise than any American kids I see today. When video games, MTV, and VCRs kicked in during the '80s, exercise levels among kids dropped considerably, and by the '90s when computers came along, well, the rest is history.

                          This doesn't entirely explain the phenomenon among poor families in other countries that can't afford these things, of course. A couple of other things to consider: the huge increase (again, no pun intennded) in the number of American fast-food outlets worldwide, and the corresponding increase in portion size. (The latter has been well documented--most of us would not even recognize the small burgers and sodas served at McDonald's 40 years ago.)
  • Re: No FAT Japanese people is a *huge* misnomer

    Fri, December 8, 2006 - 10:32 AM
    I think the word you are looking for is "misconception", not "misnomer".

    and of course there are fat folks in every culture. but to make an accurate comparison, we would need to look at actual obesity statistics, not just occasional bits of anecdotal evidence.

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